Forum.forSuicideSurvivors.com

[OscarLonnie]

I have been thinking a lot about this for the past week. My girlfriend, Lonnie, never left a note or gave any indication as to why she committed suicide. Even though I dated her for nearly six years I feel like I barely knew her at all.

I'm thinking Lonnie committed suicide because perhaps she was always an impulsive person. Even though I'm still dwelling on the reasons "why" I want to know if she planned her suicide or if she did it out of impulse.

Any thoughts on the matter would be very helpful.

Do any of you think your loved one plan their death?

Oscar

[Cyndi S.]

Hi Oscar,

You have raised an interesting topic. My youngest son Josh made the decision to end his life over 8 years ago. There had been no indication of a mental illness, or at least not one that I or his siblings were ever aware of or noticed. He did not seem to be depressed, but was worried about several problems in his life that he had to face and work through. He left no note. I would have to catagorize his action as impulsive, not planned or meditated upon.

But hindsight is 20/20 as they say. I have found some poetry that he wrote in the last year or two of his life. He never shared it with us, kept it tucked away in a briefcase. After reading some of his work, I now see at least the possiblilty that he was more troubled than we ever realized. Had I read it before he died, would it have raised any red flags for me? I don't think it would have. He thought himself a 'song writer' of sorts, and I would have just assumed this was the type of lyrics he thought would appeal to his peers (he was into the heavy metal shock value stuff that I couldn't stand or understand!)

I will always feel it was an impulse, but can never truly know for certain. Because I have "accepted" his decision and know that he is still with me in spirit, the bond of love between us will never disappear, and I will be with him again when the time comes, that uncertainty really doesn't matter to me.

Wishing you inner peace...
_________________
Cyndi Slider
Message Board Senior Moderator

Tears are a tribute to the feelings we have for our loved ones so we should never hold them back. It's not a sign of weakness but a physical sign of our appreciation and affection for them.

[Ronnie Walker]

Hi Oscar,

Here is a link to an article on "The Urge to End it All" which adresses some of what you are writing about.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/06/magazine/06suicide-t.html?_r=1&ref=magazine

Ronnie
_________________
Ronnie Walker, MS, LCPC
Executive Director, Alliance of Hope for Suicide Survivors

Visit our website at www.forsuicidesurvivors.org

[WaterLady]

Dear Oscar,

I believe with my husband it was Impulse; He was always a very act now, maybe should not have done that person. Bless his Heart

Hug's to you, our journey is long.
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the number of moments that take our breath away.

[Bex]

I believe that Brian did what he did out of impulse. He was abusing amphetamines for the better part of 2 years and was slipping further into amphetamine psychosis - paranoia, delusions, hallucinations - and I know he had taken some that night and was feeling very paranoid. Researching further into everything, I think he was also possibly Bipolar II as I'm coming to the realisation that I may have this disorder myself... I know he was depressed at times, but in the days before his suicide we were discussing plans over the coming months and he was looking forward to things we had planned. At the same time, he sent his final message to me and his step-mum a couple of hours before he did it, so it was possibly only planned that night.. Utter confusion!

Unfortunately, these are things we will never know for sure, unless we meet them in an afterlife and can question them and give them a good hiding for their trouble! I know it can be agonising dwelling on these questions, and it's hard to focus on anything else at times. Like Cyndi has suggested, when we come to "accept" their decision, the questions start to matter less. Most of the time now I don't question it as much and have moved more into a "stage" of sadness and just missing him being around in general. It all takes time. A lot of time.

Adding to the ((hugs)) and I also wish you inner peace!
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http://www.bexmorgan.blogspot.com/
Brian Shields 19/11/78 - 28/6/09

[Lilly]

My heart aches for you. I know why you asked this question, at least I think I do.

I always thought my Dean committed suicide because of his very impulsive personality. Well, since I was the last one on the phone with him, I always thought the "disagreement" that we had pushed him on edge even though this was not the first time we had argument. I always thought we had a very good relationship. We at least "agree to disagree." Why did he choose that day to "go" still puzzles me till today. I felt so guilty.

But then, after the suicide, I found out lots details.


Dean had at least twice suicide attempts in front of his family members. IN front of his mother and his Twin brother. He always attempted suicides in front of the ones he loved the most. His mother, his twin bro, and finally me. In a way, I am very thankful that their family didn't blame me directly because they know how he was.

Dean was a very impulsive person due to his undiagnosed borderline personality disorder. I am still battling with my blame issue to be honest. There are lots people I believe have mistreated him, but I am definitely not one of them. I wish I could be a "perfect" girlfriend though, I just miss him and love him so much!!! It hurts too bad.
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I never ask for more than your love
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[Tony's Mother]

Oscar,

I have always felt Tony planned to do what he did, at least 4 months earlier. I can see it in his face in the last picture ever taken of him. I see it in the last gift he ever bought me, which I use as my avatar. It is a lighted water fountain turning a crystal ball inside a chunk of golden quartz marble. I see it in a picture of him and his grandmother where he was looking at her as though he knew it would be the last time he would be seeing her. It was Christmastime. I thought he was thinking that she would die first. I certainly never dreamed he'd be going before Spring.

Mostly, he left a journal. We know he was intent on ending it because he believed he was terminally ill. We can never know if that was true. The autopsy showed nothing. I do know he had never let on that he was depressed until the day before he did it. There was something in his voice. Was there anything I could have done had I driven immediately to Florida from Atlanta? We will never know that either.

These questions can drive us nuts and that's perfectly okay. Eventually, the questions will recede into the background, at least temporarily.

I am very sorry for your loss. I'm glad you found this forum.

Linda
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Linda C.
Message Board Steward

Still Tony's mother
November 8th, 1957 - March 4th, 2008

For a moment he took his eyes off the light and the darkness swallowed him.

[Lilly]

The article that Ronnie has posted answered many of the questions I believe.

I agree with this part:


Both readily acknowledged the high degree of impulsivity associated with that method, but also considered that impulsivity as simply another symptom of mental illness. “Of all the hundreds of jumping suicides I’ve looked at,” one told me, “I’ve yet to come across a case where a mentally healthy person was walking across a bridge one day and just went over the side. It just doesn’t happen. There’s almost always the presence of mental illness somewhere.” It seemed to me there was an element of circular logic here: that the act proved the intent that proved the illness.

I know Dean suffered from borderline personality disorder. Impulsivity is the hallmark of this ugly illness.
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http://www.slide.com/r/LeFZuF9c7j_goAxyrHC5TyxKgzmrajL5

I never ask for more than your love
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[motherboots]

I do believe suicide can be an impusive act. Biut I know my husbands was anned some months before he actually kille himselfzm ther were letters and journals left that in hindsight answers that question.. I just want you to know I am very sorry for your loss. I know you want answers and you may get some but unfortunately the one who can answer all the questions is no longer here. I wil ipray for peace for you and know we are here for you.
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Faith Hope and Peace

Motherboots

Message Board Steward

[Hestia]

Although my friend Julia could be impulsive, I believe she planned her suicide very carefully. Her partner told me that Julia had visited sites online that gave advice about ending one's own life. (Who would put up a website like that? And why?) She also left two suicide notes, one I haven't seen yet, and one on the door to the bedroom where she was found, telling her partner not to come in but to call the police. Sometime right before or after she overdosed, she also hid the empty prescription bottles so that if someone found her alive and called 911, they would have no way of knowing what medication(s) she had taken. She also called me and several other friends on the day she died. Although she didn't say so at the time, I'm sure it was her way of saying goodbye.

I'm not sure if knowing how carefully she planned it makes it harder or easier. Or maybe it doesn't make that much difference. The bottom line is, she's gone and I miss her terribly.
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Peace,
Hestia

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Message Board Steward
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"Death is not the greatest loss in life. The greatest loss is what dies inside us while we live." -- Norman Cousins

[OscarLonnie]

Hi everybody,

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and experiences regarding this matter. The reason why I put forth this question is because I’m desperately trying to make sense out of the seemingly senseless reason why Lonnie committed suicide. The guilt, anger, the “what ifs” and “if only” is eating me up inside.

Cyndi, just like your family, Lonnie had several siblings. As far as I know none of them suspected Lonnie was depressed. Quite frankly it didn’t dawn on me that she might be suffering from depression either. Even though our relationship wasn’t all bliss this past year. There were days when she would go missing after we had an argument. Toward the end she became more introverted. I guess when someone is like that…hiding their thoughts and emotions there no way for other people to know their state of mind.

Waterlady, Lonnie too was a very impulsive person. She always described herself as a spontaneous person and would like to do things without planning…like trips and stuff. There were times she got in trouble not keeping her appointments. Sometimes we would be on our way to some place on a date and she would just change her mind and some times that would lead to a big fight.

Bex, I can relate to the feelings you’re going through. My younger brother is an alcoholic and drug addict. He was a very good person. However, when he started hanging out with the wrong people and started doing drugs he turned into a completely different person. He even threatened me once. I do believe he didn’t know what he was doing and I forgive him for it. But at the same time I feel I need to be “tough” with him. Maybe it comes from being an older brother. Thank you for sharing. I really appreciate it.

Tony’s mother and motherboot, I don’t know if it would be any better if Lonnie left a suicide note. I only read a couple of poems she wrote at my place that sounded kind of dark, but nothing that would have led me to believe that she was suicidal at the time. In hindsight maybe I feel differently now. Lonnie didn’t keep a journal as far as I know and never really acted out of the ordinary like giving me special gifts before her suicide.

Hestia, after Lonnie’s suicide I bought a couple of books to try and understand her emotional and psychological problems so that I could come to some kind of understanding behind her suicide. I read one titled “Final Exit” and was shocked to see it was basically a catalog of suicide methods and couldn’t believe Amazon placed this book under “Suicide/Suicide Prevention”. I’m not for censorship at all, but I’m quite shocked and wonder about the effect a book like this has on young impressionable minds like teenagers, and even my Lonnie.

Ronnie, thank you for the article. I read it twice and it helped a lot to understand Lonnie’s emotions toward the end.

Lily, thank you for the detailed information it really helps. You wrote that Dean had attempted suicide twice in front of his family members. And you said he even did that in front of you too. I have followed a lot of your posts because our situations are very similar. Sorry for asking, but I’m wondering…do you feel he was punishing the ones he loved? What do you think?

Also, you quoted, “It seemed to me there was an element of circular logic here: that the act proved the intent that proved the illness.” This makes so much sense to me, but it also frustrates me because I always understood cause and effect, but this is the first time I’ve had to deal with the effect without knowing the cause, or knowing the cause long after the effect…when it was too late.

Again, thank you ALL for your help. It means a lot to me.

Oscar

[Lilly]

Hi Oscar,

You have to remember that Dean has suffered from undiagnosed mental illness - borderline personality disorder. He also suffered from epilepsy when he was 4 years old all the way till he was a freshman in college. Many people suffered from either one of this condition die by suicide. BPD is among the most lethal psychiatric disorder. 10% percent of them completed suicide. More than 85% of them attempted suicide at least once in their life time. My doctor once told me that people who suffered from borderline personality disorder lead very tragic life because they have to deal with very violent mood swing (very similar to bipolar, but different.) The difference between bipolar and BPD is that bipolar is the result of brain chemistry imbalance, BPD cannot be cured or even controlled by pills. My Dean suffered so much all his adult life. All his odd behaviors are the result and the symptoms of this ugly thing BPD. So to answer your question, no, he didn't punish the ones he loved the most, he had to show his vulnerability to the ones he loved the most, therefore, he had to show it to his mother, his identical twin brother, and finally me.

I cannot say to a person who is suffering from common flu, that "Hey, if you love me, stop the running nose." Same goes, I cannot tell Dean, "Hey, if you love me, don't threaten suicide." Threaten suicide is a symptom of an illness, please do not over analysis it. You can only drive yourself nuts by doing that.

My Dean was a very wonderful man, but he used "suicide" to shock people to ensure that he is loved or he is "heard", that doesn't mean he is a bad person, that only mean he's ill, he needed help (professional help, medication to regulate his out of control mood, and talk therapy) He suffered from this illness for 30 something years. He died from terminal mental illness.

Oscar, my heart aches for you so much. I know why do you beat yourself up for her death. I know nothing anybody say can take away the guilt inside of you because you were the last person on the phone with your Lonnie, Just like myself. This is the price we have to pay for loving somebody who suffered from mental illness. I know why do you have to ask this question, I also know why you need other people's opinion and reassurance. But YOU have to know you didn't cause Lonnie's suicide. As hard as it is for you to accept, YOU must accept no enough romantic love or any type of love can cure terminal physical illness and or mental illness.

At the very beginning, I struggled. I remember I asked Ronnie, "You said Dean's suicide is not my fault. Did you just say it to make me feel better or you really believe so." Ronnie told me, "I don't need to make up something to make you feel better. Lily. You are simply not that powerful to make somebody kill himself." Do you know how much that statement meant to me? That statement right there saved my life!!!! Oscar, don't beat yourself up for it anymore. We can all tell you it is not your fault, but you have to believe it in your heart that it is not your fault simply because you cannot CONTROL anybody's behavior. You are not in charge. You are not that powerful.

I cried so much for a lot of people on this message board. I so want to take away the blame, the never ending whys that torment so many people here in this community. I hated, absolutely hated the what ifs and if onlys. We all have to accept this simple fact, Life is not all about peace, love, and best friends forever. We all have to struggle, who doesn't have a lot of "crap" happen to them? But sane and mentally healthy people will never even think about killing themselves. Suicide itself is mental illness which is simply illness. It needs to be diagnosed, treated.

(((((( big hugs Oscar))))))) I want it so much for you to recover from this trauma, You are a very good person.

Please take care.
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http://www.slide.com/r/LeFZuF9c7j_goAxyrHC5TyxKgzmrajL5

I never ask for more than your love
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[motherboots]

[WaterLady]

Lilly,

I just want to Thank You so much, You explain things so well.
Just Thank You for being you.

A Big Hug......
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the number of moments that take our breath away.

[Lilly]

Thank you ALL too

this message board, every single one of you, my grief counselor really saved my LIFE!!!

I need to do something for this community!

(((((( big hugs ))))))))
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http://www.slide.com/r/LeFZuF9c7j_goAxyrHC5TyxKgzmrajL5

I never ask for more than your love
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